Despite what I wrote on Friday, Liverpool are, in fact, starting all four of their top attackers. Gabriel Jesus, meanwhile, makes his second Premier League start of the season for City. Should be fun! Kick off is at 11:30 am EST. I’ll hop in a couple minutes before. See you soon!
Pretty even game overall? City were a bit better at creating from open play, although LFC had some good deep possession that didn't turn into anything. The last 30 minutes were totally forgettable. Given where the game was and their current point totals, the point is better for Liverpool, but if TAA is out for a signifiant period of time, that might be the most impactful outcome from the match. Without TAA, Thiago's gonna need to get healthy and pick up the slack ... and Thiago is never healthy. City, meanwhile, were the new City: way more sterile in possession, not as much pressing, and relying on some individual brilliance to create big chances. Overall: It's only November and these teams already look fatigued. Not a great sign for the rest of the season.
Thanks to all of you for hopping in. As always, you made that more fun than it had any right to be. Enjoy your Sundays and be well.
Cancelo has played really well for City, in both directions. Thought he was a fantastic signing last summer, would be an obvious boon to them if he came good.
I think one of the potential benefits of playing this sort of front 4 is that they's all comfortable dropping deep or running in behind. Especially when TAA gets the ball, there's either space for Firmino or Salah to drop in to receive a pass or for them to run into. Pretty simple thing but I think it fucks with the positioning of City's backline a good deal.
I’m sure this is a very common opinion that many people have said before, but the rodri/gundogan midfield is just so boring and really dulls the City attack
If we accept that the season is still going to come down to Liverpool and City for the title -- betting markets still think that -- then I guess a draw here is a much better result for LFC than MC.
It's been pretty interesting to see how involved Wijnaldum has been so far. He's usually affecting the game with his off-ball movement and positioning, rather than having it at his feet. But in the first half, he attempted and completed more passes than any Liverpool player.
He did, but I think he's usually pretty "press resistant". And he's done some good carrying in transition. Other than the goal, which I think required a pretty rare bit of skill, and a handball you can't really do much about, I think LFC have been pretty secure.
Man a couple times now since Milner came on Jota/Mane calling for the long ball in from the right wing, and he just doesn't have the locker that Trent does. Stark
Had a fleeting thought wondering whether Neco has that in his locker. Regardless of the answer, I'm always worried about him defensively though. Think he gets (m)any starts assuming a significant absence for TAA?
Why do Kyle Walker and KDB keep finding themselves in acres of space on the right-hand side of the pitch? Is it just Mane not positioning himself correctly on the left-side of midfield in defense?
Hopefully they can get it right after watching film. When you have four player bombing towards goal it would be helpful to have one sit back a s a cutback option. Would create more space for the runs. City look vulnerable, the final ball is just lacking.
If you play your wingers out wide and have them stay there (not the best use of sterling) then inverted full backs could make those underlapping runs into the space between outside backs and center backs
Eh. I think it's justified to go down under illegal contact in the area even when it's not necessary, if only just to draw attention to it, but any extra play acting is just dumb.
While year's true, refs are only human at the end of the day. Refs aren't going to gain superhuman vision any time soon. On balance its better for the attacker to make the foul super obvious rather than try to shrug it off and hope the ref catches it.
I don’t think it will ever change. If there’s a way to gain an advantage players will do it. Even with fines, cards etc players will do what it takes to win
Illegal play is illegal play, whether the theatrics are justified or not. Just because the player probably COULD stay on their feet, doesnt mean they should let the foul slide and risk the opposition getting away with it.
So I'm an American dumbass sports fan who's been trying to learn and understand soccer since getting hooked during the '18 world cup. Ryan's newsletter has been a huge help on that front, but I still find myself viewing soccer through the lens of sports I understand better.
I think a lot about soccer in terms of the statistical revolution in basketball. While there's no three-pointer in soccer, the other big change in basketball has been having better offensive players (more skill and shooting) at traditionally defensive positions--playing a great shooter at power forward or having a center who can dribble and pass, for example.
Do you think this kind of thing might happen more in soccer? It seems like KDB is an example: he has forward skill at the midfield position. Klopp's lineup today, playing one of Firmino or Jota in MF, is in that direction. Just curious as to the group's thoughts.
also daryl morey thinks soccer teams should play long ball and passing anywhere near one's own box is suicidal. weirdly this is something the british moved away from years ago.
I don't think Daryl's "never pass back" idea is good at all fwiw. If anything, the lesson learned from hoops should be to have a GK who is really good at passing (Ederson)
His midfield options forced this change. Is a midfield of Keita / Henderson / Gini that much more secure than Bobby dropping deeper? If Fabinho had been fit would have been a different story.
This is a good point. I’m thinking the defensive cover will have to come from one of the fullbacks. Look for Robo or Trent to stay back further than normal and maybe even cheat in a little bit further to the center when the other makes a high run up the pitch?
Would just like to say it was quite bold to name a pod let's have some fun and spend what felt like 30 minutes on Arsenal. Shout out Grealish like yall said, shoutout Ollie what a stud. Villa over Arsenal going forward might be real, big 8 or 9 seed energy from Arteta's Arsenal.
HT STAT UPDATE:
-Shots (on target): City 4 (2), Liverpool 6 (2)
-xG (per Stats Perform): City 1.21, Liverpool 1.01
-Final-third passes: City 29, Liverpool 38
-Penalty-area passes: City 2, Liverpool 5
I'm obsessed with what Lee Dixon is saying right now. He's basically suggesting that we need to have former players looking at VAR replays.
"And now we turn to Vinnie Jones, in the VAR booth ... and for the 100th time in a row he has decided 'no penalty'."
They're both still conscious, play on.
It's the reverse Steve Javie.
FT STAT UPDATE:
-Shots (on target): City 7 (2), LFC 10 (3)
-xG: City 1.57, LFC 1.19
-Final-third passes: 70, LFC 58
-Penalty-area passes: City 7, LFC 10
Pretty even game overall? City were a bit better at creating from open play, although LFC had some good deep possession that didn't turn into anything. The last 30 minutes were totally forgettable. Given where the game was and their current point totals, the point is better for Liverpool, but if TAA is out for a signifiant period of time, that might be the most impactful outcome from the match. Without TAA, Thiago's gonna need to get healthy and pick up the slack ... and Thiago is never healthy. City, meanwhile, were the new City: way more sterile in possession, not as much pressing, and relying on some individual brilliance to create big chances. Overall: It's only November and these teams already look fatigued. Not a great sign for the rest of the season.
Thanks to all of you for hopping in. As always, you made that more fun than it had any right to be. Enjoy your Sundays and be well.
WE DO LOVE IT, WE REALLY DO
Lookman: "see it happens to the best"
If I could bet on penalty props, am I getting +1000 that De Bruyne doesn't put it on target?
about the same odds for trump still winning the election...
The thing about the ball is that it doesn't lie
FFS!!
Cancelo has played really well for City, in both directions. Thought he was a fantastic signing last summer, would be an obvious boon to them if he came good.
I think one of the potential benefits of playing this sort of front 4 is that they's all comfortable dropping deep or running in behind. Especially when TAA gets the ball, there's either space for Firmino or Salah to drop in to receive a pass or for them to run into. Pretty simple thing but I think it fucks with the positioning of City's backline a good deal.
*to run into behind
Is this formation Klopp's stepping stone to the complete elimination of the midfield?
The Power Cube cometh.
Did he get hair plugs
Klopp has a guy.
Think it’s the same as the teeth guy?
Lebron’s guy? Rooney’s?
His wildly intense facial expressions and nods at the assistant while receiving instructions gotta be a good sign
Shaqiri again? he's officially off the naughty step.
for Jota, right?
Just wanted to mention that two of our most prolific commenters are "James Milner's Peloton" and "David Villa's Burner".
It's a normal name. Move on, find a new slant.
Gotta figure out how to change my name to Ndombele's Beanie to up my posting
There's been one shot since the 60th minute. You, quite literally, hate to see it.
salah looked like he could barely run a second ago. it's november. i'm calling a bayern repeat
This resembles last year's El Classico games. Except this game has no obvious reason to be so boring.
The players are exhausted and in bad physical shape.
These teams look tired. Maybe the least-intense 10-15 minutes of this fixture since 2017?
feel like they declared after the hour mark
We love it. We absolutely love it.
Karma for TAA’s handball last year?
Appropriate time to mention Karma
FFS
Dennis Bergkamp 2.0
I can't tell if that was great skill or an awful first touch lol
Heresy
Was that touch intentional because my oh my that was sweet
Can’t erase that Gomez gave up a penalty but he’s otherwise making it seem like teams attack him because VVD is so good and not because Gomez is bad.
I’m sure this is a very common opinion that many people have said before, but the rodri/gundogan midfield is just so boring and really dulls the City attack
I feel like all game Gundogan is just apologizing for making yet again another backward pass and ignoring forward runs
Peloton Users....ASSEMBLE
If we accept that the season is still going to come down to Liverpool and City for the title -- betting markets still think that -- then I guess a draw here is a much better result for LFC than MC.
Best CB, best CM, and best RB in the world all currently injured now.
(BEFORE YOU CALL ME A HOMER. KIMMICH IS THE BEST CM IN THE WORLD AND IT IS NOT CLOSE.)
He might still be the best RB too
McKinnie is actually back now, subbed on against Lazio
Is KdB a CM?
Ndombele has been playing all season
Oh god ...
How many starters can Liverpool lose before they become league average
It's been pretty interesting to see how involved Wijnaldum has been so far. He's usually affecting the game with his off-ball movement and positioning, rather than having it at his feet. But in the first half, he attempted and completed more passes than any Liverpool player.
His close control is incredible; the work he does in tight spaces is something to behold. Have been really impressed with him this year
Is that a good thing/the best use of his skills? He gave the ball away in a pretty dangerous place before the goal, right?
He did, but I think he's usually pretty "press resistant". And he's done some good carrying in transition. Other than the goal, which I think required a pretty rare bit of skill, and a handball you can't really do much about, I think LFC have been pretty secure.
Just gave it away poorly again and that led to a good counter. Not sure you want him pulling the strings this much
Might just be a coincidence but the two quietest players are the two attackers who've never played in this fixture before: Jota and Torres.
It seems at least in defense, Jota is playing as a right-winger. Isn't that his least ideal position across the front 3?
Yeah, they seem to drop into a 4-4-2 out of possession.
That first-touch from Jesus: intentional? unintentional? don't care?
if it was unintentional, he sure seemed to know where it was going
Yeah, regardless, amazing instincts and reaction to get to the ball
Both intentional and unintentional. Wanted to take it toward goal with inside of his foot and accidentally took it behind his standing leg
It was awkward and impressive.
Intentional
If your life depended on someone giving away a needless penalty on the corner of the box, who would you choose?
-Kyle Walker
-Arturo Vidal
-Other
David Luiz?
I'm taking Serge Aurier over the field
thought you were a soothsayer then realised my my stream is behind by a few minutes. i was also just about to write Kyle Walker...
Only five minutes in, but it's been REALLY easy for Liverpool to get the ball into City's attacking third so far.
Feels like city is really trying to drop deep and play with 10 behind the ball. But they also don't look like they're trying to break with speed
I am slightly worried we got all the fun crazy games out of the way and now every team is exhausted.
The god of football put down his pie, adjusted his flat cap and caused that miss to protest the new rule.
Red looking a little sus
Skipping
That's just a silly first touch from Jesus.
Firmino and Jota? Klopp smells blood!!
I always thought this would be a fantasy Liverpool front three, so I'm glad we're seeing it today. Even if it whiffs, at least I'll have seen it
I love that the answer to Firmino or Jota was "Both.".
if the bundesliga still has the month long break could even see m'gladbach making moves in CL
Marco Rose Hive
Could see it either way. Gladbach are good
Man a couple times now since Milner came on Jota/Mane calling for the long ball in from the right wing, and he just doesn't have the locker that Trent does. Stark
Yep, he just kept dribbling, and dribbling, and dribbling, until he ran out of space, stepped on the ball, and passed it backward.
All great artists are misunderstood.
Had a fleeting thought wondering whether Neco has that in his locker. Regardless of the answer, I'm always worried about him defensively though. Think he gets (m)any starts assuming a significant absence for TAA?
Wow Gini with the close down of Sterling
Why do Kyle Walker and KDB keep finding themselves in acres of space on the right-hand side of the pitch? Is it just Mane not positioning himself correctly on the left-side of midfield in defense?
Probably a combo of Mane not being used to playing in what's basically a 4-4-2 and Liverpool not really wanting Mane to drop that deep to begin with.
Wha't wrong with the Liverpool break? Are there too many options?
Kinda like salah, mane, firmino know the runs each of them should make to maximize space and timing. Jota isn’t on the same page yet
Only the second time the front four have all started together
Hopefully they can get it right after watching film. When you have four player bombing towards goal it would be helpful to have one sit back a s a cutback option. Would create more space for the runs. City look vulnerable, the final ball is just lacking.
Could it be that they're too flat, positionally. All forwards, no midfielders trailing and arriving late into the box?
Just had the same thought
I’d like to see pep go with two inverted fullbacks. If you play them high enough it probably isn’t all that different from inverted wingers
Feel like Walker and Cancelo are pretty asymmetric. Walker tucking inside, Cancelo pushing high and wide.
Yeah this is more of a fun intellectual exercise than anything else
Isn't Torres and Sterling already filling up those spaces?
If you play your wingers out wide and have them stay there (not the best use of sterling) then inverted full backs could make those underlapping runs into the space between outside backs and center backs
xG God, best place to go for live xG stats during a match? (Also what is the xG right now in this one?)
I'll throw out an update at halftime. I believe the "InfoGol" app has in-game updates.
https://www.infogol.net/en/matches/english-premier-league/man-city-vs-liverpool-2020-11-08/70211 I think this is what Ryan was going to link to. Follow them on Twitter they have halftime updates for every game usually
I really can't get over the fact that soccer players are incentivized to act, and rewarded for acting, like giant babies
Eh. I think it's justified to go down under illegal contact in the area even when it's not necessary, if only just to draw attention to it, but any extra play acting is just dumb.
It will only change when refs start giving fouls even when players don't go down
While year's true, refs are only human at the end of the day. Refs aren't going to gain superhuman vision any time soon. On balance its better for the attacker to make the foul super obvious rather than try to shrug it off and hope the ref catches it.
I don’t think it will ever change. If there’s a way to gain an advantage players will do it. Even with fines, cards etc players will do what it takes to win
You also never see all of the dirty/disgusting/under-handed that defenders do. Tom, as a former collegiate defender, knows this better than anyone ...
I think I’ll take that as a compliment
I think my problem is that you HAVE to dive if there's contact to get a call. There is strong reverse incentive to keep trying to score
there are incentives in every sport to act. Not just in soccer.
Two words: Vlade Divac
An additional two: James Harden, Porcelain Emporer.
My bad: Porcelain Mamba
True, but you don't get 30% of the scoring in one game for doing it in other sports
Illegal play is illegal play, whether the theatrics are justified or not. Just because the player probably COULD stay on their feet, doesnt mean they should let the foul slide and risk the opposition getting away with it.
Yeah, if Sterling goes down, they get a free kick on the edge of the box. Mane gets maybe less(???) contact, goes down, and its a clear pen.
So I'm an American dumbass sports fan who's been trying to learn and understand soccer since getting hooked during the '18 world cup. Ryan's newsletter has been a huge help on that front, but I still find myself viewing soccer through the lens of sports I understand better.
I think a lot about soccer in terms of the statistical revolution in basketball. While there's no three-pointer in soccer, the other big change in basketball has been having better offensive players (more skill and shooting) at traditionally defensive positions--playing a great shooter at power forward or having a center who can dribble and pass, for example.
Do you think this kind of thing might happen more in soccer? It seems like KDB is an example: he has forward skill at the midfield position. Klopp's lineup today, playing one of Firmino or Jota in MF, is in that direction. Just curious as to the group's thoughts.
also daryl morey thinks soccer teams should play long ball and passing anywhere near one's own box is suicidal. weirdly this is something the british moved away from years ago.
I don't think Daryl's "never pass back" idea is good at all fwiw. If anything, the lesson learned from hoops should be to have a GK who is really good at passing (Ederson)
pep was trying to play a team of midfielders in 2012 to maximise attack and defense players in his team
TAA is another example of "attacker skill in a defensive position"
yeah, think the evolution of outside backs (honestly expectations for defenders on the whole) fits with what you're talking about.
Shall we start Firmino or Jota today, gaffer?
Yes.
His midfield options forced this change. Is a midfield of Keita / Henderson / Gini that much more secure than Bobby dropping deeper? If Fabinho had been fit would have been a different story.
This is a good point. I’m thinking the defensive cover will have to come from one of the fullbacks. Look for Robo or Trent to stay back further than normal and maybe even cheat in a little bit further to the center when the other makes a high run up the pitch?
Would just like to say it was quite bold to name a pod let's have some fun and spend what felt like 30 minutes on Arsenal. Shout out Grealish like yall said, shoutout Ollie what a stud. Villa over Arsenal going forward might be real, big 8 or 9 seed energy from Arteta's Arsenal.
only way players can rest now is to contract covid. fergie would have done this to stop giggs joining up with wales.
Would love to hear what Klopp is saying to Pep & the ref
Almost feels like both teams are happy not to take points off each other until they've shaken the rest of the league off. It's wide open, chaps!
man does, the champions league restart after the international break? feel like we'll be seeing many a snot nosed youth product this season
This second half has been atrocious as an entertainment product.
unused to seeing Alisson not dressed like the Undertaker.
The most fun neutral result is definitely a Man City win. It would group so many teams at the top of the table at least in the short run.
Add "KDB stopper" to Milner's expansive resume.
Finally a compelling match!
liverpool dialing Abala agent's number...