The Netherlands and Portugal kick off in about 45 minutes. (It’s on ESPN, if you’re in the States.) I won’t be in the thread until the game starts, but until then, please feel free to talk with each other or post questions or alert me every time the USMNT takes a shot against Venezuela.
I think Van de Beek will shake things up for the Netherlands if he comes on. They can probably afford to play a more attacking midfield, and he's an unpredictable player who makes difficult runs. Nothing really challenged Portugal's defensive shape in the first half. He'll either find space for himself or create it for his teammates.
Weird dynamic in that first half, one you don't normally see: Portugal played that perfectly, ceding the ball and then attacking into space when they got it. Evident in the 10 shots to zero. But! The Netherlands also have two of the best CBs in the world, and a very defensively capable midfield, so none of the chances Portugal created were all that special. That was 45 minutes between 18 players -- Dutch attackers and Rui Patricio weren't really a part of it.
Ronaldo taking FKs is soccer's version of dribble bias in the NBA. I mean, he must be good at them. Look at how he stands over the ball and clenches his jaw before taking a short, sharp exhale!
All right, that's it for today. Thanks again for hanging out and for the great questions. Bummer that the game wasn't a little more exciting, but the past few days were fun. We'll definitely do a bunch more of these in the future. [heart emoji]
Also, the post-game reactions are exactly what you'd expect for a tournament that doesn't really have a place in the hierarchy: Dutch players seem less disappointed than they'd be after losing a league game, and Portuguese players seem happy, but no more than that.
Isn't that what makes International Soccer—especially in this era—so weird and exciting? All the club superteams sign players to cover up their faults or replace aging players. In international football you can't do it like that. I kind of weirdly celebrate this frustration.
Seems pretty easy for Portugal to get behind the Netherlands right now -- and just from possession play, not even off counters. Helps to have great CBs to prevent even a shot from coming from it, but feels like they're in a dangerous spot right now.
From Muhammad Butt, "Sky anointing Bruno Fernandes "the best player on the pitch" because he's been shooting every time he's within 30 yards of goal is absurd."
What happened to Justin Kluivert? Did he do nothing at Roma this year? The Dutch need something extra in the front 3...I thought he'd be an exciting player for EUROs next year.
Okay, good. He's a lot of fun to watch when he's on form. I love a lot of this Dutch team, but they need some more variety up front. Hope he has a good season at Roma next year.
Would you try to extend Gini (under contract until 2021)? He'll be 30 by then. On the other hand, his versatility seems like it would be very important in a post-Milner universe, and he was a bit of a late bloomer.
Ajax had to play 3 champions league qualification rounds, thus started the season very early. They started camp 15 June 2018. De Ligt, de Jong etc are still playing now. Neres is probably gonna be playing for another month.
Is Daley Blind the slowest fullback who’s been successful throughout his career? Every time I watch him I wonder how he avoids getting barbecued by quicker players, but he’s been holding it down for a decade. Almost seems like the last of a certain breed, given how important offensively minded fullbacks have become.
I'm very much against the idea of a European Super League for the men. I kind of like it for the women's game though. I think it makes sense because the differences in quality in the domestic leagues are even bigger in women's football and the sport actually needs to grow internationally. Please tell me why I'm wrong.
Ian Darke just pointed out how VVD is somewhat of a late bloomer. Only 27 international caps at age 27. Also, many didn't rate him that highly when he transferred to Liverpool. Now he's the betting favorite for the Ballon D'or
Is his meteoric rise in the last year as unusual as it seems? It's got me thinking of what other players are lurking at mid-table sides just waiting for the right set-up and situation to have a 'late-bloom'
I feel like we see this in a bunch of other sports, where guys, you know, "take the leap" our of nowhere. The scouting and opportunities are definitely titled toward guys who were highly touted prospects or who debuted for big clubs at a young age. They get second- and third-opportunities that others don't. So, my guess is that there are a lot of other guys out there, but they don't get funneled up to the Liverpool level as often as they should.
With all of the Ballon d'Or talk about Messi vs VVD, who would be your early prediction 11 for the FIFPro World XI (what a dumb name)? Besides Messi and VVD I feel like Alisson is a lock and there's no way Ronaldo, who was credibly accused of rape, doesn't make it.
Is all this Van Dijk for the Ballon d’ Or talk just another case of Messi/Ronaldo fatigue or does he actually have a case? I casually watched Liverpool all year and was a little surprised to see him win the PFA player of the year. Nevertheless, what are some of the formidable arguments for him?
not sure how good his chances actually are, but the best player on the CL winning team always makes the conversation. If the Netherlands win today he'll also have defeated both Messi and Ronaldo head on.
The way Van Dijk impacts the game is huge but it's def not as awe-inducing as CR7 or Messi, probably why it would be hard. I can see him being the "third guy" though, if the voters want to reward his excellent season. And if he shuts down Ronaldo today, a couple of weeks after helping Liverpool overcome Messi, he will surely get more hype.
Luuk de Jong looked about 400 years old on that bicycle kick. Respect for trying, though.
Really nice slip pass from Guedes past De Ligt, who is bad now, to ultimately create the goal for himself.
This certainly feels like a second-game-in-four days at the end of a long season that followed a World Cup summer.
The football we love, then
Referee isn't helping either
I think Van de Beek will shake things up for the Netherlands if he comes on. They can probably afford to play a more attacking midfield, and he's an unpredictable player who makes difficult runs. Nothing really challenged Portugal's defensive shape in the first half. He'll either find space for himself or create it for his teammates.
Weird dynamic in that first half, one you don't normally see: Portugal played that perfectly, ceding the ball and then attacking into space when they got it. Evident in the 10 shots to zero. But! The Netherlands also have two of the best CBs in the world, and a very defensively capable midfield, so none of the chances Portugal created were all that special. That was 45 minutes between 18 players -- Dutch attackers and Rui Patricio weren't really a part of it.
De Ligt just trucked Ronaldo. The highlight of the game so far.
Paging Ian Darke. Ronaldo isn't particularly good at free kicks. He just gets to take a ton of them.
Imagine being Pjanic, watching Cristiano shoot another fk in the stands
Somewhere, Pirlo chuckles before sipping a glass of Merlot
Ronaldo taking FKs is soccer's version of dribble bias in the NBA. I mean, he must be good at them. Look at how he stands over the ball and clenches his jaw before taking a short, sharp exhale!
Bernardo Silva would be so annoying to play against.
(This is a compliment.)
Ryan, who’s the all-time I’d hate to play this guy for you? I think I’d go with gattuso
Honestly, probably Dirk Kuyt? I would've hated him if he didn't play for Liverpool.
Ramos has to be high on that list
I think I’d need 100 ice baths if I ever had to line up against prime Vidic.
That's 165 minutes of Nations League today, and zero goals. Meanwhile, we got nine goals in 270 minutes of World Cup play.
think of all the goals in usmnt friendlies though... wtf
All right, that's it for today. Thanks again for hanging out and for the great questions. Bummer that the game wasn't a little more exciting, but the past few days were fun. We'll definitely do a bunch more of these in the future. [heart emoji]
Also, the post-game reactions are exactly what you'd expect for a tournament that doesn't really have a place in the hierarchy: Dutch players seem less disappointed than they'd be after losing a league game, and Portuguese players seem happy, but no more than that.
Deserved win for Portugal -- "18 shots to 4" is as dominant as it's gonna get in a final. This is a really good tournament team.
These things are always cyclical, but the lack of attacking talent with the Netherlands is a problem.
Isn't that what makes International Soccer—especially in this era—so weird and exciting? All the club superteams sign players to cover up their faults or replace aging players. In international football you can't do it like that. I kind of weirdly celebrate this frustration.
The Netherlands still only have one shot. Less than 20 minutes left ...
Gotta save that.
I guess, but that was a rocket...should've probably been in better position, though.
Positioned himself perfectly for the Bernardo shot. Didn’t move over quickly enough
It's a shot in the center of the goal from 23-ish yards out. He hit it well, no doubt, but that's a save more often than not.
I've never seen the ref do the [makes shape of ball motion] at players before.
Seems pretty easy for Portugal to get behind the Netherlands right now -- and just from possession play, not even off counters. Helps to have great CBs to prevent even a shot from coming from it, but feels like they're in a dangerous spot right now.
Bruno Fernandes sure took a lot of shots that half. None of them were very good.
Apparently Sky Sports was impressed, LOL!
From Muhammad Butt, "Sky anointing Bruno Fernandes "the best player on the pitch" because he's been shooting every time he's within 30 yards of goal is absurd."
https://twitter.com/muhammadbutt/status/1137805982338375680
The content of the conservation he and Ronnie are now having will probably require him signing a non disclosure.
The Netherlands have 58-percent possession ... and zero shots. Portugal have six attempts.
Netherlands lost to England but are copying their no shot on target style. Moral victory if nothing else.
In other news:
-The USMNT is losing to Venezuela, 3-0, at halftime
-Norway's Caroline Graham Hansen is awesome. Go watch her.
Brazil x Honduras is tied 0-0 in what's sure to be an exciting game /sarcasm
This is a good reminder that Fernando Santos's teams are incredibly boring.
Think we should make a distinction:
-Messi SHOULD win the Ballon d'Or. He's the best player in the world and had an incomprehensible season.
But ...
-The award doesn't ever just go to the best player. Team success almost always plays a huge part. Hence, VVD is now the betting favorite to win the award: https://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/ballon-dor/player-of-the-year
The German tv coverage of the game has had no commentary for the last ten minutes. Seems appropriate though.
Starting to get convinced Daryl Morey is right and that playing out of the back so much is high risk/low reward.
In international soccer, he might be right!
I was getting ready to jokingly ask where Renato Sanches is, but apparently he's kick-boxing!
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/renato-sanches-trains-kick-boxing-in-bid-for-peak-fitness-5036
Thought he looked so good at the Euros and then... Swansea...
What happened to Justin Kluivert? Did he do nothing at Roma this year? The Dutch need something extra in the front 3...I thought he'd be an exciting player for EUROs next year.
For a 19-year-old, he was ok? Stats: 0.47 NPG+A/90, 0.29 NPxG+xA/90
Roma were also a mess this year, manager-and-front-office-wise. So, I wouldn't worry just yet.
Okay, good. He's a lot of fun to watch when he's on form. I love a lot of this Dutch team, but they need some more variety up front. Hope he has a good season at Roma next year.
Really interesting how Europe will now have a trophy every 2 years. Same thing Concacaf has.
Wonder if South America will make that decision someday or if it’s just too tough with all the best players in Europe.
I think everyone's gonna have a Nations League relatively soon.
South America already has one: the World Cup qualifiers. They just don’t give out trophies, but the stakes are way higher.
Would you try to extend Gini (under contract until 2021)? He'll be 30 by then. On the other hand, his versatility seems like it would be very important in a post-Milner universe, and he was a bit of a late bloomer.
Hmm, I probably wouldn't. Better to give those minutes to someone younger.
Is anyone else having a hard time concentrating on the game bc Taylor Twellman is constantly complaining?
I am astounded by the lack of break these guys get. Copa America, this thing, European qualifying.
Must be amazing to be a player who’s not quite good enough to make the national team. Lucas Moura for example.
Ajax had to play 3 champions league qualification rounds, thus started the season very early. They started camp 15 June 2018. De Ligt, de Jong etc are still playing now. Neres is probably gonna be playing for another month.
Incredible tackle.
Folks, things are heating up!!
Great save by Venezuelan keeper
Pretty dominant performance by the home team so far. Can’t see Dutch holding on another 45
US just blew a great chance at goal
Definitely looking better second half though
Is Daley Blind the slowest fullback who’s been successful throughout his career? Every time I watch him I wonder how he avoids getting barbecued by quicker players, but he’s been holding it down for a decade. Almost seems like the last of a certain breed, given how important offensively minded fullbacks have become.
The sideline trudger used to be a team stalwart. You say slow he'd saw maintaining his speed.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Ronaldo's in a final shouldn't there be a plague of locusts by now?
I keep thinking "why are Manchester City playing against Portugal?" -- these Nike kits are so similar to one another
I initially thought Barca... Teal(?) is too arresting a colour to be a shirt. Looks like they're dressed in silk.
I see Ryan Babel open all game long and they cant get him the ball.
How much better would this match be if Ricardo Quaresma were somehow involved?
Evergreen statement, which can be applied to literally any situation.
I think the same thing about Pepe {without hair} . I hesitate to suggest what this says about me.
Totally understandable - they’re the yin and yang of buzzcut Portuguese football
I'm very much against the idea of a European Super League for the men. I kind of like it for the women's game though. I think it makes sense because the differences in quality in the domestic leagues are even bigger in women's football and the sport actually needs to grow internationally. Please tell me why I'm wrong.
If you consolidate the big teams, then there's almost no way you get legitimate financial investment anywhere outside of the power center.
Ian Darke just pointed out how VVD is somewhat of a late bloomer. Only 27 international caps at age 27. Also, many didn't rate him that highly when he transferred to Liverpool. Now he's the betting favorite for the Ballon D'or
Is his meteoric rise in the last year as unusual as it seems? It's got me thinking of what other players are lurking at mid-table sides just waiting for the right set-up and situation to have a 'late-bloom'
I feel like we see this in a bunch of other sports, where guys, you know, "take the leap" our of nowhere. The scouting and opportunities are definitely titled toward guys who were highly touted prospects or who debuted for big clubs at a young age. They get second- and third-opportunities that others don't. So, my guess is that there are a lot of other guys out there, but they don't get funneled up to the Liverpool level as often as they should.
United now buying players from Swansea. Liverpool have made lower leagues fashionable again after Robertson purchase.
Or maybe United have just forgotten about Nick Powell
Defending seems to require a bit of mastery, positional and decision making sense.
HI Ryan, How big a disappointment is the US U-20 loss to Ecuador? The road to the finals was pretty wide open....
Eh, Ecuador were the South American champs. Quarterfinals seems about right from what I saw from the team.
With all of the Ballon d'Or talk about Messi vs VVD, who would be your early prediction 11 for the FIFPro World XI (what a dumb name)? Besides Messi and VVD I feel like Alisson is a lock and there's no way Ronaldo, who was credibly accused of rape, doesn't make it.
Looks like they go with a 4-3-3 now, and it is heavily titled toward successful teams. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFPro#FIFA_FIFPro_World_XI
So, let's say ...
Messi-Ronaldo-Mbappe
Hazard-De Jong-I Don't Know Maybe Bernardo Silva?
Robertson-VVD-Laporte-Trent AA
Alisson
What's the most fun outcome today?
Ronaldo wonder-goals cancelled out by De Jong brilliance?
Game-winning Memphis Depay golazo after missing 5 easy chances?
I'm not a Portugal fan so I'm having trouble imagining a fun outcome where they win.
Ryan Babel hat trick
Doesn’t it seem ridiculous to factor in performance in the Nations League for the Ballon d’Or?
Is all this Van Dijk for the Ballon d’ Or talk just another case of Messi/Ronaldo fatigue or does he actually have a case? I casually watched Liverpool all year and was a little surprised to see him win the PFA player of the year. Nevertheless, what are some of the formidable arguments for him?
not sure how good his chances actually are, but the best player on the CL winning team always makes the conversation. If the Netherlands win today he'll also have defeated both Messi and Ronaldo head on.
The way Van Dijk impacts the game is huge but it's def not as awe-inducing as CR7 or Messi, probably why it would be hard. I can see him being the "third guy" though, if the voters want to reward his excellent season. And if he shuts down Ronaldo today, a couple of weeks after helping Liverpool overcome Messi, he will surely get more hype.