222 Comments

Just realized this: The US are playing the same way they played when Abby Wambach, who is not on the team, was on the team.

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I have two thoughts:

1) The Dutch are playing a 4-4-2 with two central midfielders. The USWNT are playing a 4-3-3 with three central midfielders. The USWNT have more central midfielders! They should play through the midfield! And yet, they're forcing things up the wings.

2) Oh, and the USWNT's best midfielder isn't playing because /shrug.

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Ellis is a joke

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What is your best guess as to why Horan isn't playing? What is the deal with Ellis, this is crazy.

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politics can be crazy. Happens on every club

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I know y'all have an extraordinary amount of talent and depth in your team and that makes all the difference and can cover for a lot of flaws in the coach. How much of the good things about the USA comes from Ellis? And how much scarier could they be if they had a different coach?

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good question. Part of it is selection though- what's the ceiling on performance when all your forwards are over 30? With an entire position group like that, you kind of have to be cautious at a tournament.

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Two World Cups in a row. That's what you call unfuckwithable. Shoutout to this group of women. It's hard to imagine there'll ever be a better collection of talent -- in any sport.

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I mean... if they do it next time, that'll be a huge deal because it feels like without some pretty serious structural changes around selection Europe will solidly pass us by.

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Announcers are saying "shoulder to shoulder", but that was just silly defending.

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sounds causal

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in all seriousness, that's crazy. On a less serious note, now we know what PSG was going for

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That should do it. Netherlands have only taken one shot so far. They need two goals. Rose Lavelle: pretty, pretty good.

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Michael Bradley is the player dumb Liverpool fans think Jordan Henderson is

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I guess, my parting note here is this: Most national teams are poorly coached and poorly managed. As you guys probably know, I've written about why countless times -- not enough time to build cohesion, more money in the club game, most federations are deeply flawed and politicized, and etc. -- and that's not to say that teams shouldn't strive for something better. But: France won the World Cup with a handbrake on and a striker who didn't score a goal, Croatia made the final by playing a style from 1997, England did nothing in open play and made the semis, Germany left Leroy Sane off the team, Spain fired their coach right before the tournament started, and Argentina LMFAO ARGENTINA. So! I think it's important to keep that in mind when you're assessing the performance of the US or any other national team. Had a blast today, though, guys! Thanks as always for hanging out. We'll do it again soon.

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This is one of the few times where I'll use this word, but: The US "should" be up a goal right now. Didn't take as many shots, but the chances were all pretty high quality. Fun game!

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Brazil's record under Tite is absurd. He took over in 2016, and they've lost twice: to Belgium at the WC and to Argentina in a friendly. They're deserved winners of the Copa: 13 goals scored, one conceded in six games.

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It bothers me that people dismiss this team as "not a great brasilian side." It's gotten infinitely more difficult to win Copa America in the face of a golden generation in Colombia, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina THAT OH BY THE WAY coincides with a massive rise in professionalism, nutrition, and quality across the continent. You can't just show up and expect to win, and Brasil have finally (?) realized that. Argentina have yet to do so.

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Totally agree. The attacking talent doesn't quite match up with Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Robinho, Adriano, etc. all being on the same team, but the defense is on that level: 11 goals conceded in 42 games under Tite, 31 clean sheets. They've given up two goals in a match ONCE, and that was against Belgium when Fernandinho headed the ball into his own net.

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Feels like the only time Gabriel Jesus touches the ball for City is when he's missing tap-ins. It's been fun to get to see him flex a little bit for Brazil.

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So, this, uh, er, um, I, well, yeah ...

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Didn't think he had it in him TBQH

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It would be nice to see so many of the players on City actually play a full season as the best players for other squads. I once thought I understood the UEFA FFP but clearly I have no clue.

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it's interesting to see who works out and who doesn't when they leave. Iheanacho? Everyone thought he was just unlucky. I mean, given all the underlying numbers, he still profiles as "unlucky" but at a certain point there's something you're not measuring that seems to be systematic and causal

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I was thinking the higher end players. Iehnacho playing like the $25m player he is. More thinking of guys like Sane - would love to see him on almost any team.

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Gundogan is the guy for me. Doesn't quite do it for Pep (I guess? He played a lot more as the season went on), but probably would be one of the best players on the pitch for just about any other top team in any other league

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remember when Pep lost a title because he played Jesus for nearly a full season over Aguero? Pepperidge farm remembers

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Claudio Bravo would like to have a word with you as to why City didn't win a title that year.

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what was their xg diff that year? And how much of that was due to underperformance on the offensive side (versus Aguero's systematic, ridiculous cheating of xG year to year, IIRC)

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City:

-80 G, 79.5 xG (both Aguero and GJ were about even on G and xG)

-39 GA, 29.61 xGA

Chelsea:

-85 G, 61.80 xG (lmao)

-33 GA, 28.62 xGA

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Curious what were Spurs that season?

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86 G, 70.07 xG. 26 GA, 33.78 xGA. We don't talk about this enough, imo. Spurs scored the most goals and allowed the fewest and didn't win the league. They had a better goal differential AND xG differential than the team that won it!

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I talk about it plenty. Chelsea stole our CL spot in 2012 and stole our title that season. Horrible!!

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Nothing tops my british family talking to american friends who are spurs fans. The sort of horror and "but why would you do that to yourself?" look on their faces.

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[John Madden voice] Worst thing that could’ve happened to Peru was conceding an early goal.

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Boom. Doink. G. Jesus is A Guy.

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That was the first converted penalty in a WWC final. Wow!

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Best goal celebration?

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Are 100% of the people here from the USA or cheering for them? I'm wearing my Ajax jersey and hoping these women deliver the first World Cup to Cruyff's country.

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I'm rooting for the Dutch, wearing my 2004 Dutch van Nistelrooy jersey

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I’m American but placed a little wager on the Dutch pre-tourney so... I wasn’t opposed to the Netherlands winning.

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the only thing I remember about Ochoa is that when he played at Granada someone who knows things told me he was the worst professional keeper in a top 5 league they had ever tracked (and then immediately after said that the team was so bad it was hard to say any of it was his fault)

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You would never know if it you only saw him on the national team. Legendary

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well, with one exception.... (Chile)

I've always wondered why it's his spot to lose. Corona who is past his peak was probably better for a bit there, and there are plenty of great keepers in MX

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Jul 8, 2019
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Sure. But 2014 Brazil. My god. One of the best keeper games I’ve ever seen

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sorry it double posted then deleted

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Jill Ellis must know something about Horan that we don’t bc I can’t find a reason she shouldn’t start

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I ... don't think that was that bad? Pretty even game overall. US were really unlucky not to score, given the quality of all chances they created. Mexico were dominant in the second half, though, and GB's adjustments and subs were very [shrug emoji]. I guess the question is: based on talent, should the US only be playing a not-full-strength Mexico toe-to-toe?

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Also, uh, Josh Sargent absolutely should've been on this team, if not in the XI!

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I dunno. If we took both teams A squad and just sort of assessed transfer value by who actually plays, I think it's hard to say who SHOULD win (Chicharito used to way pull Mexico up, but that has changed). If we go by who is eligible for what teams, and where they play for what ELO rated teams.... it's pretty obvious that the US hasn't called their best squad in for a while. Guys like Ventura Alvarado, Alfredo Morales, Timmy Chandler, even Andrew Wooten are playing more minutes for better clubs than their counterparts. Would that USA squad be better than that Mexico squad? I'm less sure. Mexico has some great players, they just get held back through some dumb policies.

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That goal was not the first time McKennie's been McKennie'd this game: midfielder makes a late run into the box right past him.

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I'll admit that I fucking hated "tracking runs into the box" when I played holding midfield. However, that is one of the many reasons my career ended in the Patriot League.

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that's why you need to put your foot in the second you feel that guy pulling past you. It's not like you were gonna successfully get the ball off him

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100% Joe

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would you rather be sort of unlucky and concede the foul way up the pitch and maaaaaybe get a card (but unlikely).... or chase the guy down and at best get a yellow, at worst give up a goal (or end up with a red because that's what happens when you run into someone's back at full speed. or not. College refs were bad)

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to be fair to McKennie that's not his job and Bradley was, what, 15 yards out of position? We are set up in single pivot?

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What do we think: Tata masterclass in the second half to turn things around, or is Mexico just handling the long balls now? Bit of both, I'd say. And as they type that, a flick-on comes off and Pulisic takes his first touches (I assume) of the second half in the MEX box.

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mexico still lack the technical quality to handle a relatively experienced in general if not experienced with the system back line. USA is too used to the bullshit

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as I say that they had a 15-20 yard run straight at the back line with no cover

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I don't totally "get" Christian Roldan. Berhalter definitely needed to tweak things, though.

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if you sub off Morris you need to replace his pressing as well, which Altidore can't do. Otherwise Boyd is kind of obvious

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Someone should tell Mexico about xG ...

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the last holdouts of the "never shoot outside the box" revolution

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US is lucky that it's Pizarro, and not Chucky, out there trying to create things for Mexico.

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I'm tempted to say that this kiiiiiind of looks like one of those hectic Bundesliga games where both teams cancel each other out.

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There are two injury replacements -- guys who weren't in the initial squads until others got hurt -- starting this game. One for each side. I'm always baffled by that.

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US are playing long to bypass the Mexico press. If Altidore can keep winning those individual battles with the backline, then that strat seems like it'll pay dividends eventually.

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Reminds me of Llorente v Ajax

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Well, it's kind of now devolved into "pass the ball back to the keeper and have him aimlessly slice the ball to no one".

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Wow. That's two HUGE chances for the US in the first eight minutes.

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Jozy destroying Moreno

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I just looked up the average club-team ranking (per 538's rankings) for both outfield starting XIs. For the US, it's 266 -- or Sydney FC in the A-League. And for Mexico, it's 139 -- or Reims in Ligue 1. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/global-club-soccer-rankings/

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Predictions anyone? I "feel" like the US is going to win, but this whole enterprise is premised on the idea that you should question our gut, so I'll do that and say ... 2-1 Mexico.

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I've only seen the good US performances and weak Mexico performances this Gold Cup, but I think it'd be fitting for a repeat of 2007. A 2-1 US win at Soldier Field.

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It’s mexico’s Cup to lose. They’ll have the ball, they’ll create the better chances, they’ll definitely win the xG. The key to the US winning is mexico not taking their chances because of the lack of their big name guys on the pitch. There’s a huge difference between having Lozano taking that last shot and Pizarro.

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I’m taking mexico 2-1 on a controversial Pk.

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3-2 Mexico. USA blows a lead at some point.

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I'm off to catch some sunlight, but I'll be back for the Copa Oro in a few hours.

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Ah, yes, Peru are maintaining the exact same shape they used in build-up play when they were at 11v11. I hate that. You have an extra player! Do something with it! Look how many defenders they have back when they're establishing possession. It's maddening.

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there you go. Yotun for Ruidiaz. But Yotun has been their best player by some distance, IMO.

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First goal Brazil's given up all tournament.

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Is anyone watching the Copa America final? And if so, can anyone sketch out a scenario in which Peru wins that does not involve penalties or massive amounts of good fortune?

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Gabriel Jesus is playing, so Brasil put 50 balls in the box but he's on the end of every single one of them and misses them all. Peru get a good chance on a counter, Alisson is out of the box somehow, and Peru convert

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This entire first half I’ve been nervous for the referee. I’m a noob but it seems like Peru has been up for the match. For someone with no rooting interest it’s been fun!

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I'm gonna head out for a bit, but I'll pop back over for the Copa final and the Gold Cup, too. A couple parting thoughts:

1) Despite coming into the tournament with the reputation as the best attacking team in the world, the US won mainly because of their defense. Just three goals conceded all tournament. Chalk another international-tournament win up to a dominant rearguard.

2) As Joe pointed out below, there are only five players on the current team who will be under 30 come the next World Cup. Two of 'em are, imo, the two best players on the team -- Lavelle and Horan -- but it's gonna be a tough transition to manage.

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The USWNT are going to win but it's obvious that it is despite Jill Ellis not because of her. That's the moral of this World Cup, that the individual talent (similar to France last year) triumphed over any coaching mediocrity.

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Who should win the Golden Ball?

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Crystal Dunn

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She’s the USWNT version of Van Dyke. Please excuse the comment above.

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Ertz has a case

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She’s the USWNT version of Van Dyke

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Lavelle for the meg alone

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The 34 year old who scored 6 goals, 5 of those in the knockout stages.

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Four of which were penalties, one of which was a tap-in!

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You're too clouded by logic, Ryan. It's the narrative that matters for fifa

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Arjen robben to come out of retirement with a wig for a 20 min hat trick?

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I'm never watching the Dutch play a final again

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It’s time to bring in Press. I don’t care who gets subbed off rapinoe or heath.

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#FREEHORAN

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We used a sub before the 80th minute! Huzzah!

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This just shows that the Dutch are the real deal, and that great goaltending is underrated...

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coming. Exile Bradley to the moon

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He's been terrible. Second to every ball and sloppy passing.

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he should get the goal just for that nutmeg

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Firminho worst player on the pitch for Brazil today, right? Seems a step off the rest of the team

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missed some sitters. Still doing all the hard things this team missed before they called him up regularly

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kinda biased as a huge firminho fan

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I'm guessing the ref has a car idling at the gate and a charter gassed up at the airport after that penalty call

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Oh man I’m nervous for him.

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as a liverpool fan, there are few players I have wanted them to sign for dumber reasons than Everton

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Horan goes into the Final rested, motivated, and now not worried about carrying a yellow card. Sam Mewis would be starting on nearly any other team in the world, has been scoring a LOT, plays both wide and centrally very very effectively, is tall, and is a strong 50/50 ball player. There was absolutely no downside at all to having Horan lay back unless we needed her. We also didn't need to play through the middle with Press on the field. The most important thing was to not get caught down the lines n the backfield on defense, and play wide up front so that Alex couldn't be double-teamed.

Today we should have Horan. Also, WNT very dynamically shifts from a 3-4-1-2 and a 4-3-3. But if the Dutch try to press high with their outside midfielders there will be a lot of trouble. The Dutch don't want to play through the midfield either unless they think the US offense is not clicking and there is low risk of turning the ball over in the midfield. We now know that US will willingly go to a 4-4-2 and even a 5-4-1 if they get in trouble. One thing we really need is for Lavelle to not spray shots from 35 yards out into the upper seats instead of passing into the 18.

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I continue to be both amazed and perplexed at the state and direction of the US men’s program.

A huge rich country with unparalleled resources and facilities. Three times population of Mexico and many more times the economic base. Yet, the record seems clear. The US sends almost no players of consequence to big teams and leagues and still loses regularly to Mexico.

Anyone have and idea as to why? And a suggestion for change?

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I'd push back eeeeeevvver so gently on no players of consequence to big teams. Pulisic to Chelsea is a record fee kind of thing, but John Brooks plays for a properly big club, as do Chandler, Mckennie (in the champs league with Schalke), and Sargent. Weah is going to see UCL football in Lille.

Tecatito can't get out of portugal, Lozano's got weird stuff going on in holland or people just don't like his profile... the only big up and coming guy would be Herrera, right? And he's 29. At least for young guys coming up, it seems a lot easier for american kids to get to bigger teams than Mexican ones, either as the first step (Reyna, Weah, Sargent) or as the second (Brooks, Pulisic though BvB is pretty damn big)

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Let me accept and applaud the gentleness of your response, but facts, not hopes and dreams tell me otherwise.

The Mexican contingent in Europe is too deep and long established to make any attempt at US equivalency was unsuccessful.

The Americans you mention play at bottom half clubs, when they play period. Pulisic, we shall see. He was not a first call regular at Dortmund and he is the only player of any potential “consequence”.

Mexicans take in Jimenez a genuine star for Wolves in EPL. Lozano, Erevidese sensation likely headed to Italy. Herrera, Guardado, Ochoa, Corona, each with a far greater profile and impact than any US player.

Your argument however ties directly to the core issue behind the US men’s deficit. USSF has gone all-in on the white, suburban pay-to-play business and player development model. The best athletes are not electing to participate or cannot afford to play. Look at that US squad tonight, the lack of athleticism was appalling. Our best young males are simply not in your available player pool. It compels the effort to mediocrity, and world rankings in the 30s.

I am sad to say but when you look at the regression the program has seen in last 10 years one must say the best is actually in the past and the future may be more like T&T 2018. Until USSF and our supporters accept that reality and move decidedly away from current development strategy it looks bleak.

Suggestion: fire all USSF men’s development staff, hire the crew that brought tiny Belgium from obscurity to world power in less than ten years. If not,keep building that lengthy excuse list.

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Forgot about Miazga at Chelsea and Steffen at Man City. Neither of them will ever start a game in either place (see Olosunde at Man U), but those are big clubs.

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I’m a Mexico supporter so that colors my view, but was the USA team as poor as I think? Bradley, my lord he is Mr. Mistake and no, zero, nada offensive cohesion.

Long balls and pray! Mexico really misses Lozano and Tecatito on frontline and back line wobbled too frequently.

Mex gets a 7-8, US 4-5.

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I think you're underrating all the chances the US created. Lotta possession for Mexico, but a lotta hit-and-hopes. https://twitter.com/PaulCarr/status/1148067407497453569

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Numbers don’t lie, outshot 20-11. Who had the chances?

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US created the better chances; Mexico created more of them. A looped mis-hit ended up in the net, and so Mexico wins. Soccer is random!

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